Thanks to Charlie Horse 47 and Killdumpster for their sponsorship of this post, via the magic of Patreon.
***
Many are the questions I cannot answer in life.
But there's one question above all others that lies beyond my ken.
And that is, "What are we talking about today?"
You guessed it. This announcement sees the cosmos-crunching return of the feature they'd all be talking about if it had yet been decided what it is they'd be talking about.
It's the one in which the first person who gets to comment below gets to decide the topic of the day.
Therefore, hesitate ye not, and cast the die whose throw will decide just what discussion will fill the next 48 hours.
Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the next 100 years?
ReplyDeleteRecipe/formula for a good Marvel comic
ReplyDeleteTo you, what comprises a good comic? Here's my stab at it, with reference to:
X-Men # 112, Iron Man # 106, Cap # 215, Defenders # 24, Cap Marvel # 59 - & anything else floating across my mind's eye! Hulk & Mongu's good, too - but I forgot to include it!
1.) The comic's cover & interior are by two different maestros, both at the top of their games. For example, with X-Men # 112, a Perez cover was matched by a Byrne interior - see also Avengers # 166 (Nefaria), and Marvel Team-up # 65 (Spidey & Captain Britain). Likewise, Iron Man # 106's Cockrum (always good on Iron Man) & Austin cover & Tuska interior were both well-suited to the character. Similarly, Captain America # 215's outstanding Kane & Sinnott cover was matched by a great Tuska & Marcos interior.
2.) Writing & art are both good (the latter's more important, as good art can rescue a weak story; but good writing can't rescue terrible art!)
3.) The more the merrier/variety's the spice of life. Extra characters swell the story's ranks - this can be Bill Mantlo style (adding two thirds of the White Tiger, Jack of Hearts, Wraith, etc - like in Iron Man # 106, & other tales) - or like in Ramapage # 23/Defenders # 24, when Cage, Hellstrom, Yellowjacket, Daredevil join - or Korvac, when Captain Marvel, Herc & Natasha, plus the Guardians joined- well, you get the idea! Even Cap # 215 showcased many other characters via flashbacks!
4.) Inkers must suit both artist & hero. Many inkers are great - but only correctly matched. Ernie Chua/Chan was outstanding on the Hulk, but poor on Daredevil. Terry Austin was great on space sagas & the X-Men, but didn't suit Dominic Fortune.
5.) Battles should be long & sustained, not over in 5 seconds.
6.) Someone similar, yet radically different from the hero, in at least one respect:
The Black Widow swings from a line, like Daredevil, but is willing to use lethal force, whereas ethical lawyer Matt isn't. Drax & Marvell have similar powers, but Drax is a monomaniac, hell-bent on killing Thanos. In Iron Man # 106, the Guardsman & Iron Man have similar powers, etc. Obviously, in Warlock's best story, Adam faced the Magus - etc. Daredevil & the Black Panther are always a good combination...
7.) Start amidst the action, then follow with a flashback - rather than a linear plot. Stan Lee taught Claremont this, in his very first CB story, but other writers do it too - it's less boring.
8.) Bait & switch - Minus points for covers bearing no resemblance to interior contents. For me, the worst offender being a full-on battle between Cap & the Panther, which never actually materialised.
9.) Many great comics are origin stories - e.g. Moon Knight # 1, where Moon Knight faces off against his Jungian shadow, Bushman. Cap # 215; also, new Cap Marvel's origin, etc.
What's your recipe for a good Marvel comic?
Phillip
Sorry Colin - didn't see yours. I'm pessimistic, because of AI. Then again, my doctor's surgery mucks up my prescription, so at least AI would improve that! In general, people will interact less spontaneously - already many people don't go out to buy stuff, and it'll only get worse!
ReplyDeletePhillip
Oh - I forgot to mention - the wedding of Yellowjacket & the Wasp (Avengers # 60/UK Avengers Annual 1978) also illustrates much of my recipe/formula; as does the Avengers/Defenders clash, to a lesser extent!
ReplyDeletePhillip
Phillip :
ReplyDeleteGood question. I like that you have very specific standards of what makes a “Good” Marvel comic — and provide examples too :) . Clearly you’ve given this some thought…
Being one of those ‘Art Snob’ types, I’m pretty satisfied when a comic is well-drawn, full stop. Story is of secondary importance to me, usually.
Of course, there are exceptions to that General Rule. For instance, many of the individual issues in Steve Gerber’s excellent run on MAN-THING were drawn by artists whose work was rather ordinary and not very moody or thrilling (Jim Mooney) and some that were barely serviceable (Ron Wilson / Frank Springer on the extraordinary “Kid’s Night Out’ from G-S M-T 4) but the stories, My God, those freaking stories were usually well worth the price of admission. Likewise, I think Sal Buscema was beginning to “phone it in” a bit during Gerber’s run on THE DEFENDERS but I never missed an issue.
Now, sometimes the stars align and you get a book where both writer and artist are well-matched (Claremont / Byrne on X-MEN , Lee / Kirby on FF, Roy Thomas / John Buscema on CONAN), and then we’re talking about a whole ‘nother level of “Good Comics”.
Colin:
Honestly, the way things have been going the past few years, I sometimes think the human race will be lucky to survive another decade.
b.t.
If AI renders occupations obsolete, what will people do? In Star Trek, Picard says people's objective, in their century, is personal development. But development's normally towards some goal, even if a fanciful one. It all provokes some severe head scratching. (?)
ReplyDeletePhillip
b.t. - I don't know GS MT # 4, but your point fits 'Night of the Laughing Dead'. The art was good, but not outstanding - but such a terrific story, what with Fool killer & Darryl the Clown! With Killraven, the 24 Hour Man wasn't the story's best art, but nevertheless a very thought provoking story.
ReplyDeleteSal's Defenders is an entire topic unto itself - and I might tackle one of those Defenders issues - in depth - when a suitable opportunity presents itself.
Phillip
series's best art - not story's best art
ReplyDeletePhillip
This topic - weirdly - has "legs", so to speak. Further to b.t.'s comment - "Comics that shouldn't be good, but are" - a future "Speak Your Brain" idea! Several are immediately springing to mind!
ReplyDeleteAvengers # 60 - an origin story(Yellowjacket's). Yellowjacket - an evil counterpart to Giant-Man/Goliath, with similar size-altering powers - until the "surprise" conclusion. Other super types - the More the Merrier/variety - as wedding guests, etc. Also, like with Moon Knight/ Bushman, the psychological angle (Pym/Yellowjacket) - developed further, later on (with misgivings, on my part.)
Phillip
A great list by Phillip but if we're talking about La Creme de la Creme, all time top tens or whatever, artwork is what's going to drag a comic ahead of the pack.
ReplyDeleteI've said it here and on ppoc before, probably lo5s of times, but I'll say it again. The best ever Marvel Comics, at least for me, are:
- Captain America #110: Steranko art, Hulk, double page spread vs Hydra, Cap smoking a pipe at the start not a ciggie
- Silver Surfer Vol 1, #4 vs Thor: John Buscema on pencils, Sal on inks
- Avengers #84 vs Aaron and Enchantress, Black Knight guest starring, Avengers Mansion transported to another dimension, Buscema pencils again
- Black Widow strip in Amazing Adventures #5, Colan pencils, Everett inks, shower scene, reprinted in first U.K. Marvel Holiday Grabbag
dangermash - That's quite a good list, too! I remember that Silver Surfer vs Thor, from UK weeklies - and, artwise, it's a tough call between that & the Silver Surfer vs the Human Torch. Both were outstanding. Sal as an inker! That's that topic of artists, as inkers, creating a standout issue. Paul Gulacy inking Bob Brown, on DD # 108, Sal inking Brown on Terrex, Don Heck inked Brown on the Avengers' coats of Hercules Collector clash (Brown's the common factor!) - but I'm wandering off the point/digressing!
ReplyDeleteTo Charlie, wasn't Everett at least as good as Palmer, on Colan...?
Phillip
I'd add Romita on Kane to that list of pencillers who were great inkers of other pencilers, Phillip. If I have to provide evidence, I'll be holding up ASM#121.
ReplyDeletedangermash - Yes, that's a good example. Kane's figures - without inks correctly matched - can appear rigid - almost like rigor mortis sufferers! But - in # 121 - Romita gives a 'flow' to Kane's pencils. And it's evident right from the splash at the start, what with the curve of the line on Spidey's back, as he's looking through the window! But what am I telling you this for? You're an artist - you'll have seen all that in a glance!
ReplyDeletePhillip
Colin - Thinking about optimism/pessimism...As a kid, had someone from the future told me my favourite Marvel characters would dominate the movie landscape, when I grew up, and become household names, I think the future would have sounded very good indeed. Maybe we don't appreciate such things enough!
ReplyDeletePhillip
dangermash —
ReplyDeleteYou’re playing my song, brother. I love those John Buscema SILVER SURFERS, the ones inked by Our Pal Sal especially, and re-visit them often — it’s sure not because of Stan’s simplistic and hyper-melodramatic scripting.
For a DC example — would the original run of SWAMP THING have gone through so many deluxe reprinting over the years if it weren’t for Bernie Wrightson’s astounding artwork?
And while we’re talking about John Romita’s strengths as an inker — yes, he did much to enhance Gil Kane’s pencils on ASM (and dozens of covers). He also inked several romance stories by John Buscema in the early 70s that are just jaw-droppingly beautiful. And his inks over Gene Colan’s pencils on DOCTOR STRANGE 7 make that issue one of my all-time favorite Colan comics.
b.t.
Very well considered topic, Phillip! You cover many aspects of a memorable comic book, and I'd agree with much of your take on them.
ReplyDeleteAs an artist, I tend to put more weight on the visual aspect of comics, but a strong storyteller can certainly overcome unremarkable artwork. B.t. mentioned "Man-Thing", and that GSMT 4 tale- yes, the art was...ok; but holy cow, whatta story! (Oh, speaking of Man-Thing- I must respectfully differ with you, Phillip, regarding Manny 5- Ploog's bizarre renderings of the circus folk and the swamps seemed perfectly suited to my eyes; dfferent strokes for different folks, and all that).
A good cover is a must for a truly memorable comic. There are books I've bought specifically for the cover alone; and if the story is good, it's just icing on the cake. In this spirit, how about Avengers Annual 7? Spectacular Starlin cover, with equally spectacular art and story (plus all those characters you enjoy). That book, along with it's companion Marvel 2 in 1 Annual 2, comprise one of the greatest Bronze age comic stories ever.
Colin- to address your kickoff question: ehhhhh, probably both (yes, that's a weaselly answer). I tend to be pessimistic given the state of the world in recent years, the climate crisis, AI, rebooted comics and autotuned music. However, I'm generally an optimist, and have hope that the youth today will be wiser and make a better tomorrow (I have some grandchildren who give me much reason for said optimism).
Redartz - Being artists, yourself and dangermash will notice things I don't. However, for me, one simple test's what images stick in your mind, 40 plus years later? With 'Night of the Laughing Dead', it's Foolkiller standing there, with smoke swirling out of his gun, his deed having been done! So, the art was doing something right, that powerful image remaining vivid, decades later!
ReplyDeleteAs regards covers - yes, tremendously important. Every US comic I bought (until I started following the X-Men full-time) was based solely on its cover. Should the interior contents be slightly inferior, a calculation might be involved. Subtract the value of the interior contents from the value of an outstanding cover, and the comic's total value's redeemed, to a certain extent! I'll consult your references.
b.t. & dangermash - regarding artist as inkers, one obvious one we forgot, is Cockrum on Brown (yes, Brown yet again!) in the Avengers vs Klaw & Solarr - followed by Cockrum on John Buscema, at the Vietnam story's initial issue(s). Cockrum's prowess at making Iron Man look excellently 'robotic' (c.f. cover of Iron Man # 106) clearly evident!
Phillip
Right - Avengers Annual # 7! Redartz - Our UK cover for this story was the Marvel Two in One cover, you also alluded to. Possibly a summer or winter special of some sort. My brother got it, I seem to remember! The cover you pointed out's the superior one of the two - Marvel UK should have used that one!
ReplyDeletePhillip
I was having a snooze in the sofa just now, Phillip, thinking about your first point and about comic panels that have stuck in my head for years. The doorbell just rang just now. It was the police. Good morning sir. We've had a report from one of your neighbours that someone in this house shouted out I AM THE GOBLIN about twenty minutes ago and we just wanted to check everything was OK.
ReplyDeleteAnd on the other subject, yeah, Cockrum over Brown can be added to the list. It also got me wondering whether Wally Wood did much inking. Was there one issue of Avengers in the 20s where he inked over Heck? I'll take a look later if I remember. I still need my goblin sleep.
And once we're done with pencillers that made great inkers, there's always inkers who had a go with the pencils. There was Joe Sinnott in Doctor Doom's first appearance in FF #4. And Jim Madman Mooney may have pencilled at some point in ASM 60-90. Hard to tell really, with Romita/Heck/Mooney/Buscema being credited with weird titles like innovator or whatever rather than pencillers or inkers during that run.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYour question was well and truly hijacked, Colin. Apologies for my part in that.
ReplyDeleteAm I optimistic for the next 100 years? Well, what would I have said 100 years ago? That we'd be getting an even worse world war than the last one in just 15 years time? That we'd witness the worst genocide in history? But that a lasting peace would come out at the other end? That we'd get twelve men to the moon in 1968-73 and then never go back? That we'd all end up with cars, TVs, home computers, iPads, the internet? That rock and roll would be invented? That U.K. life expectancies at birth would be, what, 85-90 years? (I wasn't into mortality rates despite being an actuary). That England wouldn't win the World Cup until 1966?
All I can predict is that the world in twenty years time will look totally different to how it does today.
It's like that interview question. Where do you see yourself in five years time? Anyone who has an answer to that is just showing their ignorance because whatever they say will turn out to be wrong. Me, I just pretend to think for a few seconds and then say I think my biggest weakness is probably my listening skills.
dangermash - I was the original hijacker of Colin's question (he was first!) - so I'll wear a hairshirt, too!
ReplyDeletePhillip
Dangermash- Hope you had good dreams...
ReplyDeleteYou're right, Wood inked several issues of Avengers , over Heck's pencils, starting with issue 20. They look great. My personal favorite is issue 20, which has a fantastic cover pencilled by Kirby and inked by Wood. What a combo! Oh, and there's actually a blurb advertising Woody's inks- can't recall any other occasion where an inker was specifically hailed, particularly on a cover...
Also, good point in your answer to Colin's question. Looking back 100 years really emphasises the unpredictability of history. For that matter, just consider the last 25 years. I don't feel confident predicting the next week, let alone a century!
Don't worry about "hijacking" my question, Phillip - yours is a pretty epic one and I feel a bit guilty for jumping in first with a mere one-line question!
ReplyDeleteI suppose I agree with all your points about what makes a good Marvel comic but I became a huge Marvel fan at the age of 8 3/4 and I would basically read anything if it was Marvel from then onwards so I never really cared what particular thing was good about the comic I was reading, for me it was all good. The one thing I did dislike was a poorly drawn cover - even to this day I can look at a cover gallery, especially of Marvel UK comics from the '70s, and cringe at some of the appalling UK-exclusive covers.
To answer my own question - I'm becoming increasingly pessimistic about the survival of our civilisation and I feel it might only have a few decades left before it starts collapsing. That might sound overly dramatic but the worsening problems seem insurmountable - climate change, ageing populations (in the West at the moment but the developing world will face the same problem in a few decades), declining resources and chronic overpopulation. Only yesterday I was reading that the NHS is now on the verge of financial collapse and what happens when the AI revolution takes off and millions and millions of jobs become surplus to requirements? All civilisations end eventually and maybe ours is on the way out too.
But as the song said...don't worry, be happy :)
ReplyDeleteWell Colin, I was watching TERMINATOR 1 and 2 yesterday and Monday since BT said there were other good movies besides “FERRIS BUELLERS DAY OFF” from the 1980s.
ReplyDeleteCoincidentally enough, TERMNATOR’s premises that by 2029 AI will take over the world and one of its missions will simply be to kill all humans. Could that happen? TERMINATORS or I ROBOT?
In general though I think there are 4 to 5,000,000,000 people who need to hop off the planet and may do so in the next few decades.
CH
PHILLIP, I agree with all you and others have written regarding a good comic’s make up.
ReplyDeleteThe only question I have is how do wr analyze the genius of soemthing like MAUS in your framework?
You and DM are spot on about Everett inking Colan on Amazing Adventures notably the scenes in AA 5.
And I would add, perhaps challenging Red a twitch, that I think the internal art is as important as the cover art. I harken back to Comics such as AVENGERS king size number 2 with that mind blowing John BUSCEMA cover. And boy was I heartbroken when I looked at that interior art.
Same with STERANKO’s cover on HULK KING SIZE… that cover is iconic but the interior is not. Again - heartbroken!
I bought them, once finally old enough to figure out how to purchase them from a comic book catalogue, based solely on those covers! The sizzle was there - big time - but there was no steak and Charlie left the meal very very hungry.
Charlie - To me, Terminator's Skynet was 'inspired' (nicked, more like!) by Cerberus in Iron Man # 5:
ReplyDeletehttps://comicvine.gamespot.com/iron-man-5-frenzy-in-a-far-flung-future/4000-120046/
Phillip
Charlie - Yes, with good inks, Don Heck can do better - but with Vince C, he didn't have a chance!
ReplyDeletePhillip
The Scarlet Centurion & Erik the Red should team up. The title would almost write itself. Red Devils! Red Menace! Red or Dead! etc.
ReplyDeletePhillip
Thread Hijack continues (sorry, Colin!)…
ReplyDeleteDon Heck inked by Colletta or Ayers or Esposito or Roussos — fuhgeddaboutit! Heck inked by Giacoia (several issues of AVENGERS) or Romita (one issue of same) or Chic Stone or Johnny Craig (several issues of IRON MAN each) could often be quite nice. I especially liked when Dashing Don inked his own pencils. He also inked a few Bob Brown AVENGERS and one DAREDEVIL that look a bit fast and loose but very stylish.
Also, I agree with Phillip that the Bob Brown/Sal Buscema combo on that one issue of DAREDEVIL looked pretty sweet. That one Brown/Cockrum AVENGERS looked good too. I’ve rhapsodized about the two John Buscema / Cockrum AVENGERS often enough that I don’t need to do it again — but they really are SPECTACULAR….
b.t.
I just checked out Avengers #20-23
ReplyDeleteWoods inks in 20-22 are a definite upgrade on what came before but the pencilling is still unmistakably Heck.
Romita inks for one issue in 23 and the artwork looks even better. Still unmistakably Heck but there's the odd panel with closeups of faces where I could believe it was ll romita and no Heck.
After that Dick Ayers returns in inks and maybe Frank Giacoia after that but the artwork seems better than that up to issue 19. It's as if the change in inkers for those four issues hid from us a significant chapter in Dashing Don's development as an artist.
I'm now going to completely contradict myself. I've just found my favourite Don Heck story (Tales of Suspense # 69) and - bizarrely - it's inked by Vince Colletta. Yes - Vince Colletta! I suppose rare instances of Colletta producing good work have happened. There's one Thor story - and a Defenders with Yellowjacket. Anyway, here's Tales of Suspense # 69, to refresh people's memory:
ReplyDeletehttps://readallcomics.com/tales-of-suspense-069/
The story's second part/conclusion's art wasn't as good.
Phillip
Colletta's trademark "scratchiness" is still evident on other people's faces, but Iron Man and Titanium Man themselves look really good.
ReplyDeletePhillip
Running the risk of beating this subject to death, but what the Heck ….
ReplyDeleteI believe the very first Don Heck art I ever laid eyes on was AVENGERS 112, where his pencils were inked by Frank Bolle. I acquired it from a classmate (don’t remember what I traded for it). Honestly, I didn’t ‘love’ it at the time but I owned so few comics back then that I re-read that thing over and over. Looking at it now, as an adult, I think the art is actually very nice. It could just be nostalgia talking, but I don’t think so.
Nine months later, Heck inked AVENGERS 121 over layouts by John Buscema, and it also looked really good. Not as slick as Cockrum inking Big John’s layouts a few issues later — it looked like Heck might have banged out the whole job over a weekend — but what it lacked in polish it made up in energy. I remember being a little disappointed to see Heck’s name on the title page when I first looked inside, but I changed my tune just a few pages in. By the end of my first read, I had a newfound respect for the man’s
skill with a pen and brush.
Just now remembered that Our Pal Sal inked Heck’s pencils on a Black Widow story in AMAZING ADVENTURES. I honestly can’t remember what that art actually looked like, whether or not they made a good Art Combo. I’m gonna have to dig out that BLACK WIDOW EPIC COLLECTION to check it out.
b.t.
Colin and Phillip, thanks for the topics.
ReplyDeleteI am both optimistic and pessimistic about the next 100 years. I suspect that humanity's self-preservation instincts and ingenuity will prevent the destruction of civilisation. On the other hand, humanity's ability to never properly think things through will cause an endless string of problems.
The recipe for a good Marvel comic?
As stated elsewhere, good artwork is a prerequisite. Strong characters and a clear and distinct identity for the strip are also needed.
But perhaps the most important feature is multiple levels of conflict. What set Marvel apart from DC, back in the day, was the spectrum of conflict it used. Marvel heroes weren't just in conflict with the villains. They were also in conflict with their supporting cast, other heroes, the outside world and even themselves. DC heroes only ever seemed to be in conflict with the villains, and that made them feel much more two-dimensional.
Re: this idea that a comic can’t really be ‘good’ if it has a weak cover — I disagree. Y’all know I love my Gulacy issues of MASTER OF KUNG FU, but for the majority of that run, the covers were rarely as effective as the interiors. Some of those MOKF covers (even some by the usually-reliable Gil Kane) I would classify as ‘Poor’. Consider the ‘Velcro Trilogy’ issues , 29, 30 and 31 : superb Gulacy interiors inside extremely weak, generic Kane covers. Good cover art is always appreciated, but I think of it as more of a nice ‘bonus’ than an absolute necessity.
ReplyDeleteb.t.
Phillip, I don't think there's a formula for a good Marvel comic (or any other kind) at all.
ReplyDeleteThe best ones are the work of individuals with their own viewpoint, and ideas. Comics like the Kirby-era FF and Thor, Steranko's SHIELD, Judo Jim Starlin's Warlock, Miller's Daredevil, that made their contemporaries' work seem instantly dated.
Thats why American comics were ruined once they became dominated by editorial wonks who thought they knew better.
-sean
*mainstream American comics were ruined...
ReplyDelete-sean
No opinions on the next 100 years, Sean?
ReplyDeleteWas that your FIRST time watching Terminator 1 and 2, Charlie???
Whatever happened to our shiny sci-fi future with spaceships and colonies on Mars?
Colin - I am literally watching the last hour of T2 as I type this. I have seen bits and pieces of both over the last 30 years, via channel surfing but never consciously watched them in their entirety.
ReplyDeleteThey are certainly exciting. And Arnold had some famous and sometimes funny one-liners.
But BUELLER is better. :)
I have to say that the Liquid Metal Terminator in T2 made me think of the same issues the Sandman (Frightful 4) would have had back in the day:
ReplyDeleteHow much liquid metal would need to be separated from the whole to render the T2 dysfunctional???
Does anyone have an opinion on “Stepford Wives?” It’s part of the so-called binge DVD pack we got at the library which included Terminator. The theme of the binge pack is “technology gone awry “ lol. Watch or No watch?
ReplyDeleteCharlie, The Stepford Wives is a classic and you should definitely watch it!!
ReplyDeleteArnie's line "I'll be back" became the title of a novelty hit in the UK singles chart in 1991 - yes, I bought it :D
Sean - A truly groundbreaking/innovative story's a different proposition (although some of my elements may occur in it!) I'm suggesting a blueprint - hypothetically - whereby a comic's good, on any given month, by following a recipe/formula. Like Jim Shooter telling his creators to start stories with an establishing shot. Claremont et al were excluded, Shooter said, as structure like that wasn't necessary for them. The recipe/formula's there so that(with every creator), at a minimum, every comic's at least good - perhaps much, much more!
ReplyDeleteRip's dojo's featuring the Kree Skrull war. That reminds me...
10.) Minus points for hoards of anonymous baddies(Avengers Annual # 7/MTIO Annual # 2, not Kree Skrull war, which strangely reminded me of the 'sequel' story!) Villains - even lackeys, flunkies, etc - should always have names/never be anonymous!
Phillip
hordes, not hoards!
ReplyDeleteBad speller Phillip
The next 100 years, Colin? I expect more of the same cycle of boom and bust, war and reconstruction. Unless capitalism is abolished of course.
ReplyDeleteSo its hard to predict a century from now in any detail.
Easier to say where we'll be in a 100 days, because Sir Keir's new government will have changed f*&@ all. And the Americans still won't have a new president.
And I thought the election here was boring and went on too long!
-sean
I wonder if the Bell Riots in the US will be before or after November 5th...
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqF7XojXzd0
On the plus side though, this side of the Atlantic we have Irish reunification to look forward to before the end of the year -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbSGp4WIBsQ
"Tiocfaidh ar lá, Number One" - Captain Picard
-sean
Phillip, I take your point about the exceptional.
ReplyDeleteNot sure Shooter-era is the best example of the latter. Fair play to him for letting the likes of Miller and Simonson - and even Claremont I guess - just get on with it... but his 'rules' didn't really make for particularly interesting average work I don't think (comparisons with later editorial regimes notwithstanding).
But I'm still not convinced by the idea of a 'recipe'. I mean, good artwork and decent writing being a plus should go without saying, no?
-sean
*Not sure the Shooter-era is the best example of average Marvel comics
ReplyDeleteApologies. I edited the first sentence, and forget to correct the second. Duh.
-sean
Sean - Yes! Also, going against my theory's the fact that comics fitting my criteria are fairly rare. Some comics, like CA # 215, are fill-in issues. Origin stories - like Moon Knight # 1, or Avengers # 60 - are one-offs/outside usual continuity. Defenders # 24 is Bob McLeod's only outing, as inker for the title (up until then.) Getting Perez & Byrne - or other big-hitters - one on the cover & the other on the interior, would be hard to schedule. It's all a very theoretical exercise! And Blade's Josie Harper story doesn't fit hardly any of my criteria, either!
ReplyDeletePhillip
One last comment on penciller/inker combos, for the Heck of it, before Steve shifts to a new topic— I checked out my BLACK WIDOW EPIC COLLECTION, and the Don Heck / Sal Buscema art in AMAZING ADVENTURES 6 looks very good, IMO. It’s a nice blend of their styles, neither artist’s style overpowers the other. In the following two issues, Bill Everett inks Heck’s pencils and the art team-up is less successful — their respective styles clash. Everett seems to struggle with Natasha’s face especially, as if he can’t decide if he wants to follow Heck’s pencils or re-draw her features to make her look more like one of his own ‘Everett-style Pretty Women’, and ends up with something that awkwardly looks ‘Neither Fish Nor Fowl’.
ReplyDeleteb.t.
b.t. - Considering Everett's work on the Submariner, I'd go with fish! ;-D
ReplyDeletePhillip
Phillip, b.t. bringing up art combos reminded me that in the 70s there was a comic book formula that actually worked -
ReplyDeletePut a Filipino on inks*.
Were there any pencillers who's work wasn't improved by Alex Nino, Alfredo Alcala, Rudy Nebres, Nestor Redondo, and that lot?
*Not counting Pablo Marcos, obviously (there's always an exception that proves the rule).
-sean
Phillip, I was trying to find another expression to avoid making an accidental pun there, but couldn’t think of one :D
ReplyDeleteb.t.
Sean - But Marcos excellent with Sal Buscema on Graviton! Also, Ernie Chan (wasn't he from the Philippines?) excellent on both Buscemas, but not Colan!
ReplyDeletePhillip
b.t. - I was left wondering if Don Heck had ever drawn the Vulture, for fowl! ;-)
ReplyDeletePhillip
Don Heck probably pencilled the vulture in ASM 63-64. Hard to tell from the credits but I'm guessing Romita layouts, Heck pencils, Demeo/Esposito inks.
ReplyDelete