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Once more the entire world descends upon this site to discover just what it is I'll be blathering on about next.
But the truth is I don't know what I'll be blathering on about next.
That's because it has yet to be decided.
You guessed it. Mostly because it says so in the post's title. It's the return of a feature that's become so revered that I wouldn't be surprised if the whole of humanity starts to spontaneously worship it.
It's the feature in which you The Reader get to decide the topic of the day.
And that means all you have to do is post a subject you wish to see discussed, in the Comment Section below, and, lo, that topic shall be born!
Here's a question that I keep asking myself. Just how bad are the Avengers at splitting into subteams? I'm slowly making my way through the team's history and have seen four examples of splits so far.
ReplyDeleteI've not included Avengers #80 where the team splits into three to head out on three different cases. That wasn't a deliberate and considered split into subteams but a case of everyone disagreeing on which case was most important and heading off their separate ways with the Vision wondering whether this meant that the Avengers were no longer a team. So, yeah, I see that one as out of scope.
I'll put the remaining four splits down here in four separate comments so people can comment on the separate splits if they want to. Lots of copying and pasting going on here: I had to be prepared in advance.
Case 1: Avengers Annual #1.
ReplyDeleteWe have nine Avengers: Thor, Hercules, Iron Man, Goliath, Wasp, Cap, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. We need to send out three subteams and have a team stay at home in reserve.
Cap picks the teams. We send out Thor with Hawkeye, Goliath/Wasp with Iron Man, Hercules with Scarlet Witch. Cap and Quicksilver stay at home.
Me, I think Thor could do a job on his own. And that Hercules needs Cap with him to keep him focused on the job. Then with Goliath and Iron Man being the remaining muscle, I'd have sent one out and kept one at home. And I'd have kept Quicksilver and the Witch separated so he wouldn’t start acting the jerk. I'd have sent out Iron Man with Quicksilver. Then the Witch would have stayed at home with Hawkeye, Goliath and the Wasp.
Cap scores D with his selection. Hawkeye wasted, risk of Hercules losing it, lack of muscle in home team.
Case 2: Avengers #100
ReplyDeleteWe have thirteen Avengers: Thor, Iron Man, Goliath, Wasp, Cap, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Hulk, Black Panther, Vision, Black Knight, Swordsman. We need one subteam to invade Olympus and one to defend Earth.
Thor chooses the teams, except that Hulk has already decided he's with Thor. The Olympus team is Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Vision, Black Knight. Earth defence is Goliath, Wasp, Cap, Hawkeye, Witch, Quicksilver, Panther, Swordsman.
Feels a bit short in physical power in the home team, even when the away team is the one that needs the big hitters. And, again, I'd have kept Quicksilver separate from the Witch. So maybe I'd swap quicksilver with either Iron Man or the Vision. But otherwise not too bad a split. Splitting into two teams isn't as tricky as splitting into four.
Thor scores a B- for his split.
Case 3: Avengers #116 (Avengers/Defendes War)
ReplyDeleteWe have eight Avengers: Thor, Iron Man, Vision, Cap, Black Panther, Scarlet Witch, Swordsman, Mantis. We need to split them up into teams to send out to six different locations.
There's no decision maker. Thor, Cap and Iron Man choose where they want to go. Vision and the Witch decide where they want to go, together. Swordsman says where he's going with Mantis but Mantis says the Panther needs her more, so leaves the Swordsman on his own.
It's a terrible split. Swordsman set up to fail. Vision and the Witch being selfish and sticking together rather than taking one for the team and separating.
Me, I'd start by giving someone the job of picking teams rather than letting it be a free for all. And if it's me picking teams, then Thor/ Iron Man/Vision all go out on their own, no brainer. That leaves five Avengers to spilt between three teams. Of the five, Cap is probably the most capable on his own, so that leaves four into two. Mantis and Swordsman are inexperienced and need to be kept apart. Mantis and Witch to be kept apart because there's beef brewing. So Witch gets paired with Swordsman and Mantis with the Panther. Easy.
The team scores D for subteam selection. We're not far from the optimal split, with only the Witch needing to switch subteams but hanging Swordsman out to dry and wasting resources by putting the Witch with Vision are two pretty unforgivable errors.
Case 4: Avengers #167
ReplyDeleteWe have seven Avengers: Thor, Wonder Man, Iron Man, Vision, Cap, Beast, Scarlet Witch. We're exploring (it turns out) the Guardians Of The Galaxy's ship, trying to find the control room and stop it colliding with a SHIELD space station. We have to choose how many subteams to divide into as well as who to have in each team.
Cap is in charge. He decides to go for four subteams. Vision and Witch, Cap and Wonder Man, Thor and Iron Man, Beast on his own. Beast and Iron Man Both seem surprised.
Four subteams works for me but I don't like the split, with Beast hung out to dry and Thor and Iron Man put together. I'd have kept the four big hitters separate and Beast/Iron Man/Vision/Wonder Man (as those most likely to be able to figure out how to redirect the ship) separate. So Beast must go with Thor. Of the other three big hitters, I'd send out Vision alone as he can go through walls and would be hindered by a partner. Then maybe Cap with Wonder Man and Iron Man with the Witch, feels more balanced than Cap with Iron Man and Wonder Man with the Witch.
While Cap was right to pick four subteams, he still gets a D for leaving Beast on his own, pairing Thor with Iron Man and hindering Vision with a partner who can't go through walls.
Dangermash - Hmm...
ReplyDeleteAvengers # 116 - To me, the split's about antagonists, more than partners. Thor (on his own) vs the Hulk - the main event, for Marvelites, clearly. Iron Man vs the Submariner's great, but it's been done already, several times. Cap vs Submariner, instead - a strange experiment...not totally successful. The Vision & the Scarlet Witch vs the Silver Surfer - a terrific idea, but a total letdown, in practice. The Vision's capabilities weren't showcased to his advantage. I can't remember all the rest...As regards Mantis, Stainless Steve (much) later had her defeat Thor ( ridiculously! ), so maybe she could have beaten the Hulk with pressure points!
Avengers # 167...
Thor & Iron Man are muckers...Iron Man knows Don Blake is Thor's secret identity, and Thor can't afford to be separated from Mjolnir - no-one else knows that!
Cap & Iron Man clash over leadership, so can't be together!
The Beast is on his own so he can be captured. That led to interesting (& hilarious?) exchanges with the Guardians. Nikki - despite her agility - says she couldn't match the Beast on the best day of her life. At first, when Hank repeats the Guardians' question, they think he's a space monkey that can only ape their comments, not speak independently. Then, the Beast surprises them with his verbosity/vocabulary!
The Vision & Wonderman have "beef", so shouldn't be together. Pairing Simon with Wanda might spark off that beef, too!
In another Jim Shooter/Perez Avengers, Ms.Marvel was bantering with Captain America, in the snow outside Avengers mansion ( but didn't break his demeanour! )
Also, in a later Jim Shooter/Byrne/Janson issue, featuring Tyrak, Wonderman was paired with Ms.Marvel ( but, showing his hand, didn't remain as composed as Captain America! )
Much earlier, there was 'The Private War of Doctor Doom', in which the Whizzer, the Beast & Wonderman kicked ass, but someday I might do an entire piece about that ( it being fab! )
Phillip
Dangermash, thanks for the topic. I'm going to have to devote some thought to it.
ReplyDeletePhillip, re: Ms Marvel and Cap's banter in the snow -
ReplyDeleteAre you thinking of that issue where the Avengers are hanging out in the mansion, and some escapee from an institution turns up (in the first part of the story that introduces the Taskmaster)?
Because my recollection is that Cap's demeanour actually was quite affected by the final panel...
Also, if so, that was by Micheline, not Shooter.
dangerous - I completely agree about Case 3. The Beast on his own? In a mysterious giant spaceship...? Ridiculous. If anyone was going to be sent off solo it should be, as you say, the Vision. Or Thor.
But you forgot about the Avengers subteam in #167 that dealt with the fracas at Jan's first fashion show! I guess the Wasp had to be there... but was Yellowjacket needed?
Is Hank Pym ever needed?
-sean
*dangermash
DeleteNot 'dangerous'. %#@&ing autocorrect!
-sean
Good call Sean. But rather than being put into a subteam, the Pyms just didn’t turn up when the emergency call went out. Maybe Wasp and Yellowjacket ignored their pagers when they went off, in which case it's weird that they get away with it when Iron Man and Thor both take a roasting in #167 for coming and going as they please. Or (more likely) Wasp is on sick leave after an injury a couple of issues before and Yellowjacket's on compassionate leave.
DeleteAnd, yeah, re Yellowjacket, in the really early issues, Wasp and Rick Jones thought of themselves as members but were only there (at least in Stan's eyes in the case of Wasp) because they were glued to cap and Giant Man. But where I am now (late 170s) there's been a switch around and it's like Wasp is one of the Avengers and Yellowjacket is a +1 hanger on.
Well, dm, I tend to think as super powers go, shrinking is not particularly impressive. Ant Man/Yellowjacket, the Atom, Doll Man... they're all a bit annoying. Yet for some reason I have always liked the wondrous Wasp. Don't ask me why, because I can't really explain it.
DeleteAnd definitely don't get me started on Rick Jones! If I led the Avengers I would definitely send Rick off on his own in a mysterious giant alien spaceship...
-sean
Just wanted to pop in and give a HUGE shoutout to Steve, Charlie Horse 47, and Killdumpster! I have a little blog where I post my comic collection. Really, that's it. Any and all traffic I receive is from Steve Does Comics! Thanks for all you've done guys! THANKS!!!
ReplyDeleteWhats the blog site?
ReplyDeletehttps://bronzeagejuniorgroovy.blogspot.com/?m=1
DeleteDM now that is a great question and well researched! I am digging out Avengers 100!
ReplyDeleteSean - Earlier than that! Whilst Cap & Ms.Marvel were strolling in Avengers mansion's grounds, some kids sneaked in and were throwing snowballs, believing themselves undetected. Without a glance, Cap casually tossed his shield, which ricocheted, intercepting the snowballs, and scattering the kids. At one point in their conversation ( I seem to remember), Ms.Marvel playfully suggested to Cap that he's a philosopher! But that didn't get much reaction out of him, the Shield-slinger being typically single-minded, and focused on the task at hand!
ReplyDeletePhillip
Kids with snowballs - yes, thats the one, Phillip. Avengers #194 (I should have looked that up for the first comment). The Taskmaster is introduced in the next issue...
DeleteAnyway, check the last panel of the banter, where Cap clearly is a bit flustered. I would suggest that's the point of the scene - that Ms Marvel has cracked his demeanour.
It looks to me like the beginning of an ongoing subplot - some sort of thing between them - that was never developed. So it seems a bit odd in retrospect. Claremont-esque even.
-sean
Thanks, Prowler. :)
ReplyDeleteSean-
ReplyDeleteI can imagine how the power to shrink might come in handy.
However, I would be worried about spiders.
M.P. +
Well I'm sure we could all think of ways the ability to shrink could be useful, M.P.+ (hey, it seems we have a new, improved M.P.).
DeleteAnd in fairness, I have to admit if someone was able to shrink to Ant-Man size in front of me, I probably would be impressed. Its not something you see every day, right?
But I meant in superhero terms. I mean, if you're a superhero who has difficulty dealing with spiders as a result of your power, how effective are you going to be against, say, Kang or Dr Doom?
-sean
It's estimated there are roughly 20 quadrillion ants on Earth on any given day.
ReplyDeleteI'll get me coat.
Prowler, are you still voting for Trump? We won't hold it against you (well, perhaps we will a bit...)
ReplyDeleteSince I'm very confident that after I leave this mortal coil, I will be voting Democrat, I vote Republican as much and as often as I can to balance everything out!
DeleteToday is exactly 40 years since I GOT YOU BABE by UB40 & Chrissie Hynde reached #1 on the UK singles chart.
ReplyDeleteSean-
ReplyDeletethat plus sign was a typing error. I am neither new or improved.
But I have always been concerned about spiders, and if I shrunk down to ant-size, they could get me.
As things are now, I have a height and weight advantage,
M.P.
Well, a typo makes sense M.P. After all, how could the original be improved on?
DeleteHope alls well. Have you been enjoying your puppy-hating former governor's rise to national prominence, and stardom in South Park?
-sean
I don’t have anything pertinent to add to this discussion but I’m enjoying following along :)
ReplyDeleteb.t.