Thanks to Charlie Horse 47 and Killdumpster for their sponsorship of this post, via the magic of Patreon.
***
Weep for me, dear Reader. For there is no Doctor Who on the telly tonight.
But who needs TV?
Not me. I have the covers of old comics to obsess over.
So, he takes the logical course of action and decides to try and kill his old friend the Angel.
Somehow, this attracts the attention of the world's preeminent super-team.
And that can only mean one thing.
Fisticuffs.
Fisticuffs that go surprisingly poorly for them until they finally get their bottoms in gear.
I remember this tale involves Peter Parker trying to help a socially awkward student fit in, in a rare outbreak of empathetic behaviour from Peter.
All I know about this one is that Moonstone's back.
I think she might be out to rebuild her reputation, after recent failures, in order to secure more lucrative mercenary work in future.
As it's his mag, I would assume that brings her into contact with Spider-Man.
And not in a way that's good for her.
But, this time, it's not that Destroyer!
It's Drax the Destroyer who, in his frustration at not having a Thanos to fight, decides to get himself killed by attacking a bunch of deadly aliens.
Unfortunately, that plan instantly hits the buffers when one of them gets stuck to this head and takes control of him.
Fortunately, the god of thunder's around to sort it all out.
This time it's a female alien who visits our world and is accompanied by a gang of criminals aiming to take advantage of the chaos she causes.
Happily, we have a Mr Fantastic available to deduct that she's simply drunk on the Earth's atmosphere, and to promptly restore her to her normal, sober state.
Fortunately, as it does so, it cauterises the wound. And, so - we're told - it does no damage.
I'm no doctor but I'm not sure you can shoot big holes in people and it does no damage, even if the wound is cauterised.
Conan's still battling those revived corpses, in order to beat some kind of Chinese sorcerer.
You may have noticed my knowledge of this one's a little sketchy.
As far as I can remember, that task involves our hero having to fight an imaginary dragon. Don't ask me why.
Elsewhere, the Kingpin's decided its time to do something about the non-stop nuisance that is Elektra.
Not only is Drax out to commit suicide, this month, so is the High Evolutionary. But because he's not physically capable of doing so, he decides to provoke the Hulk into killing him.
Posts
40 comments:
I bought a couple of these (albeit 20 years later).
Avengers
Ghost Rider's taken big scalps, in his time.
In the past, GR's beaten the Hulk (in a silly story, in which a ring of hellfire around the Hulk robbed him of oxygen - why didn't he just jump out of it?), whilst in this comic, Ghost Rider defeats Iron Man - Iron Man! - it shouldn't be allowed!
Thor
In either that Thor story, or the next one, Iron Man & Thor have a big fight, because Thor was a love-fool over Moondragon. Iron Man absorbed Thor's lightning bolt, and punched Thor through an arcade of columns, declaring: "You may be strong, but my power's limitless" - particularly if Iron Man's absorbed a multi-megawatt lightning bolt! Exciting stuff, eh? Unfortunately, the majestic Drax, the Destroyer, isn't written with the respect he deserves, in this otherwise good story.
Steve - FF # 24 was referenced in the Bob Budiansky interview, wasn't it?
To return to GR, Ghost Rider also battled a terrible infant (on another occasion):
https://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/ghost_rider_33-34.shtml
Phillip
Okay, you noticed Hulk & Spidey covers both feature ape japes - but which cover references a Joan Baez song? An easy one, to start you off...
Phillip
ASM #223. That will be the one with the party where "The air is pregnant with a sewer, smoky scent"
These issues were actually sold on the spinner racks in October. I know this because I visited the US for a holiday, in October 1981, and I distinctly remember buying Cap and The Avengers, from a Safeway in Orange County, along with the obligatory pack of Hostess Twinkies. All three were a let down, but the holiday was great. It was my first visit to the US, and it seemed like a different world, at the time. Cable tv and eating out for breakfast. Madness!
DW
Kind of a red cover month for Spidey, it seems. Both pretty good looking covers, and Roger Stern was doing Amazing...
By that time I'd dropped numerous titles, Avengers being one such. Have never read this issue, but it seems difficult to imagine Ghost Rider being much threat to the Assembled Avengers. The Kooky Quartet, maybe...
Phil, I'm familiar with supermegamonkey too!
It's an interesting website. I wasn't aware it was still going. I like this site viewcomics.me where you can read just about anything, although there are a lotta pop-ups. (some rather risque...)
I don't think I've got this internet lingo down, but old dogs, new tricks etc.
One thing I liked about the Avengers comic was Thor's handling of Ghost Rider (the art was lousy). He shook off G.R.'s hellfire easily and seemed to regard him as a minor demon. Mind you, Thor has taken on Surtur. He's not easily impressed with this supernatural stuff.
But he sure looked like a goofball in Avengers #220, where Moondragon has him in her thrall, as the phrase goes.
But I'm confused, because it sounds a lot like the issue of Thor up there, which I've never read and yet sounds pretty similar. Maybe it was a crossover, I dunno.
In the Avengers comic, when Drax realizes his daughter is using and controlling him (like Thor, I guess) he reacts with customary rage and attacks her.
In what I thought was a powerful scene, she says something like "I'm not going to let you kill me, father" and destroys his brain with some kinda mental assault.
When Drax shows up years later in the pages of the new Silver Surfer comic, he is clearly brain-damaged. I mean, he is plumb dumb.
It's a sad way to treat a character, and it was Starlin that did it! Sometimes that guy...I don't know about him anymore.
Did we really need two Hulks? I don't think so.
M.P.
Starlin's early 90s return to Drax, Warlock et al was a huge disappointment all round MP. I don't begrudge Judo Jim the chance to actually make some money in the era of royalties for mainstream comic creators, but couldn't he have just stuck with doing sh*t Batman stories?
DW, you were let down by that issue of Captain America?
Sure, it wasn't Miller's Daredevil or Byrne's FF, but by the standard of your average early 80s Marvel superhero comic the Phillip K Dick type story - my understanding is that it was inspired by Ursula le Guin's Dick homage 'The Lathe of Heaven' - was pretty well done imo.
A shame they didn't get a better artist for that issue, and that the X-Men were shoe-horned into it though.
I've not read Avengers #214 or ever had a Hostess Twinkie so can't comment on them (no, I don't know why thats stopping me this time out either).
Steve, did you finally understand or at least enjoy that series of Dr Who then?
I only caught the last two episodes - most Sunday evenings I was too busy committing crimes because thanks to political correctness I don't have any decent male role models - and they seemed pretty mixed to me.
Some of the strands were ok, an improvement on most of the post-Russell T Davies Who I've seen, but other parts were as annoying as ever. The cosmic soap opera aspect of the 21st century version really doesn't work for me. Like, one of the villains was... the Doctor's mum? Have I got that right?
-sean
I didn't like that Infinity stuff much either, Sean. I mean, it was Infinity this and Infinity that, ad nauseum, and at the end of it, Thanos is a corn farmer. I can see Thanos now, in overalls, driving his rusty-ass pickup down to the local service station every Saturday morning to unsuccessfully flirt with the gal behind the counter, buy coffee and a donut and complain about the Democrats while wondering when he's gonna get his subsidy check. (I grew up in Iowa)
But yeah, I guess one can't really blame Starlin for cashing in.
At least he got something outta the whole debacle.
M.P.
Sean
I bought these issue of Cap and Avengers, plus subsequent issues, during this US trip, and dropped both titles from then onwards. I cant recall anything about the four issues other than a mild sense of disappointment. Daredevil was great, at the time, and X-men was X-men and so I kept both going for a number of years but I was entering a down period for comics. I also purchased a CB radio during this trip and this replaced comics as a thing, for the next year or so, until a VIC-20 kicked off the whole computer era.
The Twinkie wasn't horrible, or anything, just not quite as good as promised by the Marvel ads over the years. Very synthetic tasting, as I recall. I'm going to box set Dr Who over Christmas. Apparently its one continuous story, this series, which appeals to me.
For the cricket fans amongst us, I went to the Gabba on Friday and saw the only decent day for England (Malan and Root both made 80+). The remaining four tests (Adelaide, Sydney, Melbourne and Hobart) should provide a more even playing field. I think the urn will likely remain down under, however.
DW
Oops, apologies for the slight spoiler about the recent Dr Who run DW.
-sean
D.W., I will agree with you, Twinkies are weird.
It's not exactly food, at least as far as I understand the definition of the word.
Fruit pies are a bit better, but best if frozen.
M.P.
Philip- Could Conan have diamonds (round his neck) and rust (on his sword)? Is that the Joan Baez reference?
I'll guess it isn't, but Dave's Cover if the Month is the FF, just cos it's so...erm...eye-catching. I think that just after that issue is when Byrne moved away from nice but inconsequential FF stories and started to hit his stride properly as a writer.
The Hulk issue is one of the comparatively few comics I still own these days, and it's a bit of a favourite" Bill Mantlo doing what he done best, ie telling straightforward, entertaining comics stories, and art from Sal Buscema too, something I appreciate far more now than I did when I was in the comics buying heyday, I'm ashamed to say.
Sean, I enjoyed Doctor Who: Flux. I can't say anything about it, for DW's sake but I think it's one where it's best if you turn off all critical faculties and just go with the flow.
M.P. - Thanks for clarifying my jumbled recollections. Yes, it was Avengers # 220 I was thinking of. Brain-fog, I'm afraid. That cover appears similar, yet Avengers # 220 is still 6 issues away - strange! I totally agree with your verdict - turning a great character like Drax into a giant simpleton was amongst the stupidest things Marvel ever did. Maybe Starlin wanted to reclaim him, as a character, as Doug Moench had done such great things with Drax. That doesn't sound like Starlin, though. Moondragon seemed more like Madam McEvil again! As regards the Ghost Rider Avengers, Ghost Rider had to get his comeuppance, after dismissing Mjolnir as merely having "an enchantment on it". Total lack of respect. Yes, it's easy to spend an hour on Supermegamonkey (or is it comics chronology - I get confused?), going back & forth, without realizing the time has passed.
Dangermash & Dave - The Joan Baez thing was "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" - c.f. "The Moonstone is a Harsh Mistress". Maybe you both noticed something deeper, that I'd missed.
DW - As a kid, I also visited the US (LA) in 1981 (albeit September, not October). Like yourself, I picked up a few Marvel items ;)
Phillip
At Christmas 2018 I was amazed to find Hostess Twinkies on sale in my local Tesco!! They were in little boxes, two Twinkies in each box. Obviously I snapped up a couple of boxes so I could finally sample this legendary delicacy and I thought they tasted nice. Sadly that was just a one-off batch and I haven't seen any Twinkies since.
Colin - A few years ago, Twinkies were being sold in 'B & M Bargains'. I wouldn't go in B&M now, as it's usually jam-packed, with narrow aisles. Shops like Poundstretcher are best, with very wide aisles, and usually virtually deserted. Incidentally, I didn't buy any Twinkies, as I'd heard a report that they were revolting. However, as you clearly enjoyed yours, I'm now prepared to give them a try!
Phillip
For all of you curious about Hostess products- having had many Twinkies in my time, I vastly prefer the Hostess Cupcake. Chocolate cake and frosting with a little white squiggle on top. Still a guilty pleasure...
Phil, I'm baffled that anybody thinks Twinkies are revolting. They're not!
And I love poundshops - you can find all kinds of great stuff in them :D
USA Charlie will gladly trade you UK gents a Twinkie for a Meat Pie!
Interesting to see DD on the cover of DD and Cap on the cover of Cap after SDC's last posting?
Quite a difference in marketing strategy unfolding simultaneously side-by-side on the UK spinner racks 40 years ago?
After reading Marvel's strategy in the 70s of "just crank out a bunch of comics regardless of quality to take up space on the spinners the logic would hold that Marvel UK and Marvel USA were competing with each other in the UK? Did these two entities ever coordinate in the UK?
My mum would pack a Hostess treat in me school lunch every day. But b/c Hostess brands were more expensive, Charlie was given the cheaper knock-off. His mum didn't love him all that much?
The off brands were "Little Debbie" and probably regional brands. Charlie used to love to munch Little Debbie's Peanut Butter chocolate bars the best. They approximate a Twix bar.
FWIW - Hostess Bakeries went bankrupt roughly 10 years ago or so. They blamed it on union contracts for truckers, IIRC. The trademark and trade secrets have been licensed several times since, I think. I'm sure the same chemicals are used though to make the Twinkies and such. Hee Hee.
And actually (Red, MP may know better) I think there are museums in the USA with the same Twinkies on display since they were set up 50 years ago, lol.
Colin - My brother's a Poundshop enthusiast, too. He used to get his leg pulled about it.
I had another repeat blood pressure check, today. I was concerned, as last time I was informed my kidneys were displaying raised creatine (?) levels. After last week's blood sample, this week I've been reassured my creatine levels are now okay! I don't know what this means - or how I achieved it - but I'm very relieved! : D My blood pressure's still too high, but that's nothing special for us middle-aged gits.
Charlie - My mum always got knock off brands, too. But, I suppose, other, less fortunate kids didn't even get the knock off version.
Phillip
Its inevitable Poundshops would be popular with the cost conscious consumers of Yorkshire.
I have to concur with our colleague Dave S about Byrne's early FF being relatively inconsequential compared to what was about to come.
The FF is a hard book to write, mainly because being the first Marvel superhero comic makes it fundamentally different to the rest - its as much old skool Atlas or Challengers Of The Unknown pulp as it is, say, the Avengers (a theory I've bored this blog with before) - and no-one really did it properly in the 70s imo.
Which is probably why Byrne's first efforts so strongly recall early Lee/Kirby (eg 'The Infant Terrible', the bomb strapped to the Thing in the Ego story being straight out of FF #4 etc) - I reckon he was trying to get a feel for how those original stories worked.
And yeah - FF #237 is cover of the month. Its striking, but it also helps that there isn't much competition. The Gil Conan is ok, but it could do with more texture, as somehow it lacks scale.
-sean
The worst cover is the X-Men one. Its basically a chickfight between two ladies in their underwear - how does an artist make that look boring?
I liked Bob McLeod's inking, so its disappointing to see his own stuff isn't up to much.
-sean
Sean - Yes, Byrne's idea is to rediscover/reinvent what originally made a title successful. However, this obviously isn't as simple as it at first appears. Do we really want Cyclops as skinny "Slim Summers" again? He's too puny looking to realistically duke it out with anybody. But that's not what originally made the X-Men successful. Do we really want Sue as the dutiful wifey? But that's not what originally made the FF successful. So, what is it that's universally agreed that made each comic successful? Answers on a postcard.
Phillip
The FF, as heroes, are much more limited, in many respects, than others Marvel superheroes. However, limitations demand greater creativity from the writer, to achieve a successful story. My initial low opinion of the Torch would be changed, when he used powers that surprised you. The writer had to really think what he could make the Torch do. With the Avengers, the characters offer a writer far more, but you don't always need that creativity, to overcome limitations.
Phillip
'far more scope'
Phillip
Sean and Dave, my cover of the month is the Spider-Man/Red Ghost one.
Sean, Colin and Phillip, I'm a dedicated fan of Poundland. I reckon I could live in one if I had to.
Charlie, to my knowledge, apart from a short spell in the mid-1970s, when certain US Marvels weren't officially exported to Britain, Marvel UK and Marvel US never knowingly coordinated. Most of the time, Marvel UK didn't even coordinate with itself.
Red, thanks for the Hostess assessment.
MP and DW, thanks for your Hostess assessments as well.
Dangermash, thanks for your comment too. :)
Anyone else out there love munching on Little Debbie's Nuddy Buddys???
MP?
Red?
Killdumpster???
Colin, I bought a Hostess Twinkie when I was working in New York about ( for 4 weeks) 20 odd years ago and I thought they were awful so sweet. I liked their Baby Ruth bars though ( like our Picnic).
Red--
Yep, those cupcakes were tasty. They also came with baseball cards back then, which is kinda cool, I guess, even though I never cared about baseball. You could always trade 'em to another kid for something, like maybe a ratty old comic book or a rusty old hot-wheels car.
We lived by the code of the barter system in them days. It was like Beyond Thunderdome. Break a deal, face the wheel!
Charlie, I think you're thinking of Nutter Butters.
They were like, I duuno, cookies with peanut butter on 'em?
I was a sugar addict when I was a kid, but I gotta watch that stuff now.
Gotta keep an eye on it. Watch the numbers. Cholesterol, both good and evil. I hate going in for my six-month physical and having the doc tell me I ain't a kid anymore and its high time I pulled my head outta my ass!
M.P.
You’re all wrong. The best Hostess product was the mighty Ding Dong. Everyone knows this!
Hostess Fruit Pies were okay — the Apple flavored ones were the least artificial tasting — but Dolly Madison Apple Pies were SO much better. Long gone, alas.
b.t.
Sean, I live in South Wales so I'm not a "cost-conscious consumer of Yorkshire" even though I love poundshops!
The best thing I've ever bought in a poundshop was a pack of clothes pegs which are 100% plastic with no metal parts at all, so nothing to go rusty. I've still got the pegs nearly 20 years after I bought them but I've never seen these all-plastic pegs on sale anywhere else.
Phil, congratulations on getting your blood pressure down. My father developed extremely high blood pressure in his mid-60s and he had to take prescription drugs to control it but he still died of heart failure caused by high blood pressure, aged 71.
Fruit pies are still plentiful, B.T.! (although Dolly Madison is no longer with us, sadly)
The pies taste best when frozen.
I freeze green grapes. When you eat 'em frozen, it's like eating candy.
But grapes are not candy, they're fruit! Part of God's Green Goodness. So it's okay. Plenty of vitamin C.
Might as well eat 'em. You don't wanna get scurvy, do ya?
M.P.
Charlie- yes, those Nutty Buddies are pretty good. But when it came to "Little Debbie" treats, my pick was the Swiss Cake Rolls. Basically like a Hostess Ho Ho. Yes, I was ( and remain) a chocoholic.
B.t.- Ah yes, the mighty Ding Dong! Remember when they came wrapped in a mass of aluminum foil? Aaaaaaand, did you know that in some areas (especially Cincinnati Ohio) they were packaged as "King Dons"? A buddy told me that and I didn't believe him. Then when I was working in the Queen City, sure enough he turned out to be right!
M.P.- you're quite right about the old barter system! Comics, cards, model kits, Hot Wheels, anything was fair game for a trade. Some turned out to be pretty one sided. Had a pal who traded me a Hot Wheels "Beach Bomb" for a few baseball cards. Sold that car years later for a nice little sum.
Oh, and best of luck with those physicals! Each year it seems like the old body needs another tweak or two...
Red, I remember Hot Wheels cars being a lot cooler than Matchbox cars. But over time the paint came off of them, I noticed.
As for physicals, when I go in there these days I get a prostate exam whether or not I want one.
And I do not want one.
M.P.
Sean - Valiant attempt at steering the discussion back to comics. I noticed, even if no-one else did!
Colin - My blood pressure's still high. It's the kidney/creatine(?) thing I'm relieved about.
Sorry about your father. My father died of Parkinson's & repeated pneumonia. He lived to be 84, but his quality of life, in his final years, was nil. My maternal grandfather died aged 69, of a heart attack. I also know 2 figures in my life - in relation to chess & literature - who passed away, aged 70. It's a sobering thought that we may only have as little as 18 years left (15+, in your case!) Carpe died, & all that!
Team USA - Basically, us UK guys should look for Twinkies like buns (cup cakes) or Swiss rolls, not regular Twinkies (?)
M.P. - Your doctor sounds like McCoy, from Star Trek! The majority of UK doctors are now women. My place used to have an old school doctor, like yours, but the guys like him have all retired. I'll add the frozen grapes idea to Dangermash's tip about mixing Bailey's & Viennetta.
Phillip
Well, as you will know by now Philip I am very much in favour of keeping the discussion here on topic.
Steve, I'm afraid I disagree with you on co-ordination between Marvel UK and the US parent company at this point.
We're in the era of 'Inside Comics', something which hasn't really come up here yet - the UK monthlies would have articles about what was happening with the (then) current US titles, which imports to look out for, etc.
So however half arsed it might look, it seems to me the editorial thinking behind the British monthlies in the early 80s was to provide reprints of interest to the fan audience that made up the growing market for imports which drove the increasing number of those new fangled comic shops.
Thats why alongside the Claremont/Byrne X-Men in Rampage, Marvel Superheroes then cover featured the Neal Adams era, and we got Daredevils.
Meanwhile, the weeklies were reprinting (then) current US Spidey, Hulk etc; aimed at younger kids, the idea was probably to get them up to speed on Marvel, to easily transition into the monthly/import readership.
-sean
b.t. - forgot I got to include you on the list of potential Little Debbie Nutty Buddy munchers.
MP - Nutter Butter bars was a Keebler cookie thing.
To stay on topic, I think Keebler (the ones with the elves on the packaging) did team up with Marvel or DC on some of their offerings?
https://www.littledebbie.com/www/snackproducts/view/53/nutty-buddy
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Nutter-Butter-Family-Size-Peanut-Butter-Sandwich-Cookies-16-oz/10292092
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