Thanks to Charlie Horse 47 and Killdumpster for their sponsorship of this post, via the magic of Patreon.
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London Bridge may be falling down but no one had told the people of London that, this week in 1973. The previous bridge having been sold to America's Robert P McCulloch in 1968, the British capital's populace was treated to the spectacle of Queen Elizabeth II opening a brand-new incarnation of it before their very eyes.
And, Reader, despite its reputation, fifty years later, that bridge is still standing.
There was a time when one could ask that question and not know the answer.
And that time was the week before this one because, thanks to The Mighty World of Marvel, we're about to learn the truth!
Sort of.
By crikey, here's where we get the first-ever encounter between the Fantastic Four and Bruce Banner's ever-grumpy alter-ego.
That's in the FF's strip but, in his own, Bruce Banner's about to be offered a way out of the problem of having a bullet lodged in his brain.
An offer that comes from none other than the Leader!
Daredevil, meanwhile, must tackle the awe-inspiring power of Marvel's deadliest villain yet - the Owl!
A man with the powers...
...of an owl!
A brand-new evil-doer's inflicted upon the world, as Mysterio makes his senses-befuddling debut!
Elsewhere, Thor's up against yet more of those communists he can't help encountering in his early days.
This time, In order to locate the whereabouts of a rash of disappearing American scientists, Don Blake uses himself as bait and is promptly abducted!
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30 comments:
I wonder if 'Red' Norvell was a commie. El Toro Rojo's another Thor villain who might qualify. Unless he just liked energy drinks!
Phillip
Did anyone here ever suppose Thing was stronger than Hulk when they started reading comics?
Ole Charlie always thought Hulk was much much much stronger but that Thing’s intelligence might make ip the difference in a slugfest.
Charlie - as a kid, I was very literal-minded - so, when the caption box at the top declared that the Hulk was 'The most powerful creature to ever walk the Earth', I guessed that covered the Thing, too! I started reading the Hulk during the Len Wein era, when Jade Jaws never got beaten (except maybe by gas). Yet, earlier, in Herb Trimpe's run, the Hulk encountered a number of opponents who seemed his equal, in strength ( if not always in invulnerability.) In the Fantastic Four, in contrast, the Thing got knocked unconscious almost every other issue!
Phillip
Early on in my Obesessive Comics Fan days, I read the classic Thing / Hulk punch-up in GIANT-SIZE SUPER-STARS #1, where much is made of the fact that the Hulk is stronger than the Thing. Among other plot-points, it factors into Reed’s realization that the two combatants have had their minds switched. Anyhow — I’d never given it much thought before then, but after reading GSSS1, it was burned into my Nerd-Brain.
b.t.
The Hulk may be stronger, but the ever-lovin' blue eyed Thing is more good looking.
Phillip, I'm still wondering why Thor is up against communists at all in a 70s British Marvel reprint. What happened to editing out the western imperialist propaganda?
-sean
The reason thing vs hulk caught the imagination back in those early days wasn't because people thought it was close.
It was because there were so few superheroes in the comics and when you wrote them all down and listed their superpowers, these were the only row whose superpowers were just their physical strength. No extra powers. No weapons. They were the two marvel characters with most in common. And when so many readers would have been aged 9-14 or whatever, we'd have all been wanting to compare the two of them.
Thor would have need a much closer match to hulk but we didn't care because he had the magic hammer that returned when he threw it, that could help him fly and that could let him control the weather. Thor was different enough to hulk for nobody to be clamouring for a matchup.
And here's a controversial opinion.
When a new football manager joins a club, he takes a quick look through the first team and identifies ways he can strengthen the team by upgrading players. If Sean took over as manager at Arsenal, he might for example think the best way to improve the team might be to spend all his budget on a world class midfielder to replace Xhaka.
And what I'm thinking is that if a football manager took over the FF, he'd be looking at all the villains out there and looking at the avengers lineup and thinking that only having an 85 ton lifter as the muscle in the team is less than ideal. And maybe sending out some scouts to look at Hulk, Thor, Wonder Man or Silver Surfer.
Sean - hmmm. Thor's a Viking god, and in the early-mid 70s, Scandi countries had communist parties. And - bear with me - there'd been some bad blood over the Cod War (Iceland, I know) & losing Eurovision to ABBA (in '74?), so maybe the UK was stirring the pot! (And if you believe that theory, you'll believe anything ; D )
Phillip
You know what dm, Thor probably would be better in midfield than Xhaka and if it was up to me and there was enough money left over, the Hulk and Wonder Man would be in the team too.
But the Surfer could &@#% off. Who'd want a whinger like that around?
Steve, I believe it was Old London Bridge that was falling down, weakened by plenty of fires - especially in 1666 - and the single arch constructed in the mid-18th century to allow more river traffic (capitalism, eh?)
The reputation of New London Bridge, built in the 1820s, was for sinking. By a bit over a centimetre - about half an inch in old money - every 4 years.
That's why they had to build the Modern bridge that opened in '73. Not sure whats wrong with this one. Clearly something is being hushed up...
-sean
And to stir it up more… ole Charlie always figured Namor and Thor were at least as strong as Thing?
But never much thought about a Thor slugfest sans hammer. IIRC he only hD 60 seconds befor becoming Dr, Blake?
I confess that my comic book reading days were on the Wayne by 1974, 1975. So how strong was warlock? Also, we are sure that warlock never impregnated lady Siff when he ran off with her as him? Charles
I always thought the Hulk' Thor and Hercules were by far Marvels strongest characters at this time followed by the Silver Surfer and the Thing . I had no idea Namor. was supposed to be that strong.
The controversial strength chart in Spiderman annual #15, listed Hulk, Thor, Hercules, Wonder-man and Iron-Man (for short periods) as the super-heavyweights. The heavyweights were Things, Submariner, Doc Samson, Sasquatch, Vision, Thundra and Black Bolt. The surfer only made the super-medium weights (along with Spidey).
This always seemed harsh, to me, on the the Thing. I always considered he and the Hulk to be the two strongest characters. I always thought Namor would be as strong as the Thing as long as they fought in, or close by, the ocean, which is one of the reasons I'm sad that they never confronted each other on Leigh sea-front.They could have had a glorious and well-matched punch up, before making up over a bowl of jellied-eels.
DW
Wasn't "London Bridge Is Down" supposed to be the code-word meaning the Queen had died? Did this code-word even exist or was it just the usual claptrap invented by the media? On the subject of the royals - we're only 7 weeks from the coronation but I haven't seen any coronation mugs or plates on sale. You'd think the shops would be chock-a-block with coronation tat by now.
On the subject of who's the stronger, Hulk or Thing? YAWN.
Happy St. Patrick's Day to Sean!
DW-
I had always considered that strength chart in ASM Annual 15 to be a pretty good baseline for how strong everybody was. I don't see the Surfer as having to be as strong as say, the Hulk. He doesn't have to be. He can levitate stuff.
Anon mentioned Warlock. I think the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe said he could lift 5 tons, or something like that.
That seems ridiculously low for a guy who's fought Thor. Was he stronger in his early days as Him? I dunno. Aside from the soul gem, they never really nailed down what his powers were, including his weird ability to sneak up on people.
But this is the 70's Warlock I'm thinking about. God only knows what he's like now.
I'm starting to dread seeing what the MCU does with the poor guy.
Alas poor M.O.D.O.K. I knew him well, Horatio.
I'll just watch it and groan when they show it on TV for free, I guess.
M.P.
Thank you, Colin. Although of course anyone can enjoy today as we are inclusive people.
Unlike those backward morons who run the Oscars. Good on Colin Farrell for having a bit of a go at that Jimmy Kimmell (I watched a clip of the SNL sketch on YouTube last night - wtf?)
Ok, thats the off topic rant for today.
-sean
-Sean
Well, at least the Irish have a sense of humor. I give 'em points for that.
I don't know about you, particularly, but a lotta them do.
M.P.
Thing vs Hulk clashes? Off the top of my head:
1.) A very early one, in which the Hulk uses a Kirk-style, double hand-linked smash (?)
2.) Classic John Buscema FF one, in which the Thing got distracted & was knocked out.
3.) Starlin Marvel Treasury Edition one, in which a macrocephalic alien-type boosted the
Hulk's power, making him about double the Thing's strength (a fudge).
4.) Rich Buckler one, in a boxing/wrestling ring, in which the Thing's brain's in the Hulk's
head, and vice-versa (a fudge). As per b.t.'s example.
5.) Battle at a TV studio, in which the Hulk declares: "Hulk has beaten you many times,
Thing. This time will be your last!" Marvel Comic # 331
https://www.comics.org/issue/536683/cover/4/
Also - interestingly - when catching a falling crane, the Thing comments: "Gotta time this just right--I ain't in the Hulk's class when it comes to invulnerability." (Team-Up # 1).
As regards the Spidey Annual # 15 rankings, I think the Super heavyweight ranking is pretty accurate, for my era of Marvel. The heavy weight category's pretty good, too - but - in water - Namor might rank higher. I'd also have a 'medium weight' category for Spidey, along with Captain Marvel, & Goliath - with Spidey at the bottom end of these three.
The Silver Surfer is problematic. When enraged, the Surfer beat the Abomination at close quarters, with an ease that even the Hulk couldn't match. Yet, on other occasions, he's exchanged blows with Spidey, seemingly on an equal footing. Nevertheless, like M.P. says, for the Surfer, strength's often irrelevant, as he can do things like transform the Hulk back to Banner, instantly ending the fight.
The Hulk, being green, is more St.Patrick's than the Thing (even if Ben does visit Clancy's Bar!)
Phillip
Happy St Pats Sean and others of Irish origin. I may have a Guiness later even although Ireland ( best in world at moment) put an end to Scotlands Grand slam hopes earlier this month(Rugby).
Too bad Wonder Man didn't stick around long enough in his first incarnation, I would've liked to see a Kirby version of him vs Hulk. The action shots would be mind boggling!
Killraven - Totally agree, Wonderman's first incarnation - with the 'W' insignia - is definitely the best.
On Peerless Power, Comics Fan's posted a link to Surfer vs the Thing, whereby the Surfer uses the Power Cosmic to increase his strength, as necessary. This is consistent with his Abomination scrap(and also level-pegging with Thor).
The emerald Hulk, dealing with Princess Python's snake - c.f. St.Patrick casting the serpents out of Ireland!
Phillip
Oh ffs… how can the Surfer fly through space, or him/her, warlock, thor, et al. and not be the strongest? I mean ripping along at light speed, in your spandex, unprotected from the elements as you zip around between universes, black holes, super novas… just seems counterintuitive. Maybe Rick Jones has all the answers!
Sean-Happy St Patty’s!!! And remember, do NOT kiss that blarney stone! I have it on good authority that the locals pee on it because they know visitors will kiss the thing.
Charles
Charlie - Captain Marvel photon-trailed his way to Titan, at the drop of a hat, so perhaps he should be promoted to the Super heavy weight league? As regards feats of strength, I recall him once lifting an Oil Tanker, & throwing it at Nitro.
Phillip
Drax also survived the rigours of deep space, and destroyed a small moon with his bare hands! And that was before the Infinity nonsense era, when Marvel transformed him into a giant lunk!
Phillip
A happy St. Pats to one and all!
Killraven, a Kirby drawn and choreographed battle between the Hulk and Wonderman would have been something to behold. There would be a crater afterwards.
Uh...the Hulk wins, right?
As far the Surfer and his power levels are concerned, a very similar conversation has been going on over at Peerless Power of Comics, where both Sean and Phillip weigh in on occasion!
One thing about the Surfer is, he can warp through space (at least when he's not trapped on Earth).
Think about that. The sheer ability to do that, to bounce from one planet to another, one solar system to another, surmounting distance and bending time and space, must require MASSIVE amounts of energy at one individual's command. That kinda energy could be used in all sorts of ways. Like punching out Thor, for example.
I'm not sure how guys like Mar-vell and Adam Warlock can pull that off. You'd think one would almost have to be a herald of Galactus to do that, or some cosmic badass like Thanos or sorcerer like Doc Strange.
M.P.
M.P. - Yes, I think Marvell's a medium-weight, but with a lot of fighting skill, meaning he boxes above his weight. Thor employed a "space warp", of some kind, fighting Nefaria. "Power, Nefaria? Bah - I will show you power!" Or some such phrase! That being said, M.P. I'd agree that the Surfer trumps Thor on "space warps".
Philip
The problem with these analyses is non-strength liwers. whereas Hulk could launch the Surfer into next week and not vice versa i think Surfer could send some blasts out of his hands that could cook the Hulk? Same with Torch… presumably he could burn the Hulk to a crispy critter.
The Hulk could clap his hands, extinguishing the Torch - isn't that what the Thing did? I suppose the Torch would have to crisp the Hulk from beyond hand-clapping range!
Phillip
ANY FF vs Hulk battle, from the very first on up, had me juiced to get the book.
Mysterio was one of my top ten fav Spidey villains. Think it was Ditko's suit design.
-Killdumpster
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