Thanks to Charlie Horse 47 and Killdumpster for their sponsorship of this post, via the magic of Patreon.
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Once again, crushing failure has beset the nation, with England's football team spurning the chance to win the European Championship.
This, of course, comes as no shock. After all, if there's one thing in this world you can take for granted, it's that England's men will crash out of any tournament the moment they come up against anyone decent.
However, there's something you can take even more for granted.
And that's that the second half of each month will see the return to Steve Does Comics of a feature which never fails to score.
It's the one in which the first person to comment below gets to set the agenda for discussion.
Just what that agenda may be, I cannot say.
Only those who are truly psychic - or get to the comments section first - can say.
Therefore, feel free to get the ball rolling and hope that none of us end up paying a heavy penalty.
Posts
30 comments:
In two parts…
A) Favorite Superhero or Comic Book-Style movies that aren’t based on DC or Marvel characters
One of my favorites:
DANGER DIABOLIK
B) Favorite Superhero or Comic Book-Style movies that aren’t based on an actual pre-existing Comic Book character
Another one of my faves:
BUCKAROO BANZAI
b.t.
'Condor Man' instantly springs to mind. A charming children's film, starring Michael 'Frank Spencer' Crawford, and that actress who played Fatima Blush, in 'Never Say Never Again'. I saw it at the cinema, as a kid, just before perhaps I'd have - wrongly - considered myself too old for it. I'll need some tea before considering the distinction between A & B!
Phillip
Hmmm… great one BT!!!
Charlie can Categorically state “The Boys” on Netflix is the best comic-book series for mature readers. One of the earliest episodes where “The. Atom” is head first diving into a female’s anatomy during an orgy is… top shelf!!!
Hancock with Will Smith was pretty cool as well.
May Charlie append to BT’s question???
What plagues DC lately when it comes to TV/ movies as compared to Marvel? Suicide Squad, Shazam, The Flash, and Blue Beetle basically all sort of bombed as compared to Marvel’s stuff?
Good question. I needed a bit of a think on this one.
So for part A, I'm going for Dredd, the Karl Urban one. I'm not a fan of Alex Garland, but he nailed it with a low-tech, slimmed down version of the character.
Part B, I'll go for Unbreakable or Robocop.
And in an indie frame of mind, Ghost World for sure.
Brightburn gets an honourable mention, too!
Hmm - analyzing one's own reactions. I started watching Suicide Squad but switched channels, it seeming to be garbage. The shots of Margot Robbie playing H Quinn demanded that, to the viewer, it felt incredibly cool. Unfortunately, to me, it just looked stupid, and crap. Also, some guy in a shark outfit. What's all that about? With Shazam, I did watch it, and it was okay, but a campy performance to some extent. Watching it again, realizing Shazam's that actor who played Chuck, I kept thinking: "Doesn't his face look different now?", instead of concentrating on the film. The Flash (series) - To me, it was very good indeed - at the start. Then it completely 'jumped the shark', with the mentor figure turning out to be a villain, etc - spoiling everything. Nevertheless, DC was excellent to start with - e.g. Batman Begins. To paraphrase Tolstoy: "All good superhero movies are alike. All crap superhero movies are crap in their own way." I haven't seen Blue Beetle. I suppose Marvel attempts to take its material seriously - but Marvel isn't free from sin, either.
Phillip
Hmm - analyzing one's own reactions. I started watching Suicide Squad but switched channels, it seeming to be garbage. The shots of Margot Robbie playing H Quinn demanded that, to the viewer, it felt incredibly cool. Unfortunately, to me, it just looked stupid, and crap. Also, some guy in a shark outfit. What's all that about? With Shazam, I did watch it, and it was okay, but a campy performance to some extent. Watching it again, realizing Shazam's that actor who played Chuck, I kept thinking: "Doesn't his face look different now?", instead of concentrating on the film. The Flash (series) - To me, it was very good indeed - at the start. Then it completely 'jumped the shark', with the mentor figure turning out to be a villain, etc - spoiling everything. Nevertheless, DC was excellent to start with - e.g. Batman Begins. To paraphrase Tolstoy: "All good superhero movies are alike. All crap superhero movies are crap in their own way." I haven't seen Blue Beetle. I suppose Marvel attempts to take its material seriously - but Marvel isn't free from sin, either.
Phillip
Fine with me if you want to add a third sub-category addendum, Charlie.
b.t.
Phillip:
I’ve never seen CONDORMAN, but it reminds me there was another Disney superhero movie aimed at a younger audience, from 2005 (before they bought Marvel), a TV movie called SKY HIGH. It’s about a School for teenagers with super powers , and a lot more entertaining than you might expect. With Kurt Russell, Lynda Carter, Bruce Campbell and Mary Elisabeth Winstead. Also, I’ve never seen the first SUICIDE SQUAD movie but I thought the second one was a ton of fun.
Charlie:
I thought the first three seasons of THE BOYS were great, but I’m finding the one currently airing kind of a chore to watch.
Matthew:
I liked DREDD a lot. It actually reminded me a lot of ROBOCOP in a lot of ways — which I guess is kinda ironic, since the makers of the first Robocop movie were obviously heavily influenced by Judge Dredd in the first place (and also Deathlok and The Dark Knight Returns).
I’d heard great things about UNBREAKABLE over the years, but when I finally saw it a few years ago, I was disappointed. I got to the end and thought ‘That’s it?’
b.t.
A: Best non-Marvel or DC comic book film?
Why, its got to be Detectives Inc, written AND directed by Dauntless Don McGregor -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uni52kpayY
Thats a no-brainer, right? Ha ha, no. Only kidding. I'm not mad, I haven't actually seen it, and even if I had the opportunity sitting through human beings reciting that dialogue on an ultra-low budget isn't really my idea of a great viewing experience.
But I thought you might enjoy the trailer, b.t. (;
I was tempted to go for Shogun Assassin - based oh Kazuko Koike and Goseki Kojima's Lone Wolf & Cub - but it's so long since I've seen it I'm not sure how well it holds up (see also: Barbarella, and indeed Danger: Diabolik).
So, erm... Friday Foster -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpdSX_kRSU8
Because: Pam Grier! In 1975!
Also, special shout for The Adventures of Adele Blanc-Sec. Its ok, but Luc Besson gets points from me for being into Jaques Tardi.
B. Fave 'original' superhero flick?
The Incredibles.
Also: both Kill Bill films. Which strike me as being basically Elektra, in the same way RoboCop is Dredd if that makes any sense. And if that's not good enough to count, they were ah, shall we say inspired by Lady Snowblood.
C: Actually, thinking about it, Detectives Inc has suggested a third question: what's your fave film actually by a comic book creator?
I'll go for Alejandro Jodorowsky's Holy Mountain -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtwagXquP5Q
-sean
Is not Rambo just a 1970s version of Sgt. Fury???
Charles
Sean beat me to it with The Incredibles. Perfect blend of FF and Watchmen. I’m also sticking with The Boys for now, but agree season four has been a bit meh. So, they’ll be my B and A, respectively.
I’ve found the post Endgame Marvel movies a bit boring and so I’m hoping they do a reasonable job relaunching the FF. Never liked the DC movies, even the well-received 90’s Batmans. The Heath Ledger Joker movie probably my favourite.
DW
Heath Ledger was no Cesar Romero though, DW.
Charlie, I caught a bit of Wonder Woman 1984 on tv the other night, which seemed even worse than the first one. So I definitely agree on DC (including the Nolan Bat-flicks).
But like b.t., I enjoyed The Suicide Squad - as opposed to Suicide Squad, the one without the definite article - so I'm curious to see what they do next, now James Gunn is rebooting their er, cinematic universe (even though I hate that expression).
Apparently he wants to do the Creature Commandos! Now that I'd like to see.
Although first up, he's doing a new Superman - which is a bit predictable really, but I suppose inevitable in setting up a new DC series. Thats being followed by a Supergirl film though, and then The Authority, both of which have piqued my interest.
Aren't Marvel films out of favour with the fanbase these days (not just DW)? I always thought their stuff was overrated anyway. But then I liked Captain Marvel, so what do I know? Whats the general take in zuvembie-land?
Anyone see The Marvels? Or er... Madame Web? Who's psyched for a standalone Kraven the Hunter movie?
-sean
Venom 3...?
-sean
sean:
I didnt even like DETECTIVES INC. much as a comic book. But now I’m morbidly curious to check out that YouTube link…
Yes, THE INCREDIBLES is a great sub-section “B” comic book-style movie. Better than most live-action Superhero movies.
And speaking of Luc Besson, I don’t know if I’d call it a ‘favorite’ but I kinda like THE FIFTH ELEMENT which is pretty much a live-action HEAVY METAL movie. I haven’t seen his VALERIAN movie, and can’t remember if it’s supposed to be any good or not. I seem to recall the reviews weren’t great?
I’m gonna consider the SPY SMASHER and ADVENTURES OF CAPTAIN MARVEL serials as good Category “A” movies, even though technically they’re not really movies. I know both of those characters are owned by DC now, but they weren’t back when the serials were made. And they both kick butt.
And mentioning serials reminds me of two category “A” comic book movies that I adore, Warren Beatty’s DICK TRACY and Mike Hodges’ FLASH GORDON.
b.t.
BT -
Valerian is not as bad as most people make out, but it’s not good either. If you have the stamina, it has perhaps one viewing in it. The leads are likeable but miscast, it’s totally overstuffed and gaudy and really exhausting. It’s like The Fifth Element (of which I am not a fan) x 20.
It does, however, have one of the best opening credits scenes of all time. It’s on YouTube if you can’t summon up the energy for the movie itself. It is sublime.
Sean -
Marvel seem to have crashed and burned a bit. Despite needing to think very seriously about where they were going with their properties - especially after tying everything up so neatly with the last 2 Avengers films - Disney did their ‘make as much product as possible: bang this stuff out’ thing. Like they’re doing with Star Wars.
BT - I am not sure if we are experiencing what is known as “project creep “, lol. Are you wanting to discuss old 1930s and 1940s serials from the movie theaters? If so, that puts the flash Gordon into play. That was probably the best of the lot?!
1940s The Shadow serial - honestly Charlie had to sort of force himself to like it… a bit like when Fr@nk R@bbins started working the comic book in the 1970s.
Luc Besson… clearly a unique and special talent (being french and all lol).
He wrote Big Blue as a bored teenager. That film consequently came to literally define a generation in France. My french wife was part of that Big Blue generation and we did watch it several times. Eventually though i had to confess to hear I was not a dolphin/porpoise.
Besson also wrote IIRC the 5th Element as a bored teenager? That movie was a real trip… watched it several times. Still good since it is so over the top… in a way like the craziness Guardians of the Galaxy?
Why shouldn't those old Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers serials be included here, if someone likes them enough? I enjoyed them well enough on tv as a kid, but prefer the later Flash A-HAAA film.
Although I do wonder what Mike Hodges thought about it - imagine you start making films with Get Carter and The Terminal Man, and a decade later you've ended up directing Flash Gordon, and Morons From Outer Space...
Luc Besson is pretty good at making mid-level blockbusters efficiently, but with a bit of style. I saw Lucy recently - with Scarlet Johannson - and it was more enjoyable than most of those nonsensical action/sf comic book-type films (so long as you didn't think about it too much).
It was pretty cool that he'd wanted to make a Metal Hurlant inspired film since he was a teenager, and then eventually did... and got Jean-Claude Mezieres and Moebius to design it! So I wish I liked The Fifth Element more than I do. Its ok - I'd even go along with b.t., but Bruce Willis is a deal breaker for me.
Agree with Matthew that Valerian was miscast too.
Best casting in a French comic book movie: Monica Bellucci in Asterix: Mission Cleopatra.
-sean
Bt and Charlie, thanks for the topics.
I must confess I'm struggling to think of any answers that haven't already been given. I clearly need to think about this in more depth.
Difficult questions. Almost all films are superhero films. James Bond, Westerns, Crocodile Dundee, Star Wars, Police Squad,…
Charlie (?) — I wasn’t TRYING to steer the conversation towards old serials, but if you want to discuss them, be my guest!
And sean, I was being super-pedantic about serials not really being movies — because technically they’re shorts, not feature-length films, but yes, I agree, they certainly should be a part of this conversation, if anyone so chooses.
dangermash : yes, and I think ‘Comic Book Movie’ can be a broad category too. Film critics often called Walter Hill’s THE WARRIORS a ‘Comic Book Movie’ years before the Superhero Movie Renaissance really kicked in with BATMAN 89 — and they didn’t necessarily mean it as a pejorative either. MAD MAX 2 / THE ROAD WARRIOR too —one of the early mainstream film reviews of it was titled ‘Apokolips POW!’
b.t.
Only they didn’t use the Kirby spelling of “Apocalypse” — duh!
b.t.
I know what you mean by calling Mad Max 2 a 'comic book movie', b.t., but it can be a lot broader than that. After all, The Death of Stalin was adapted from a comic. And theres American Splendour, and - as Matthew mentioned - Ghost World...
-sean
Yes, and ROAD TO PERDITION and A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE too.
b.t.
Hodges did do a reset late on in his career with those two Clive Owen neo-noir movies. Not that I’m a fan.
I’ve seen Croupier twice - decades apart - and it felt clunky and self-conscious both times. As a result I couldn’t summon up the energy for the other one (or indeed to look up what it’s called now).
BT -
Not being combative here, but did Batman 89 really kick off a superhero renaissance?
Superhero films through the 90s were few and far between and not really very good.
I’d argue the 1999 X-Men movie was a bigger spark - after that you get Raimi’s Spider-Man, Batman Begins etc. and an avalanche from then on.
300 was a sort of superhero film based on a comic-book. SPARTAAAAA!!!
Matthew:
Fair point. But I think the massive success of BATMAN ‘89 did get the ball rolling, even if Hollywood’s attempts to capitalize on it mostly failed to hit the mark. Between BATMAN and the first X-MEN , there were DICK TRACY, DARKMAN, THE PHANTOM, THE ROCKETEER, THE MASK, THE SHADOW, BLADE, THE CROW, SPAWN, etc. They were trying, at least. They knew there was a potential audience out there, but had difficulty crafting just the right product to grab its full attention.
Meanwhile the Spider-man, Batman and X-men cartoons were big hits on TV, and perhaps just as importantly, sold tons and tons of toys and other merchandise, proving their was money to be made.
Then, as you say, the first X-men and Spider-man movies were big hits in the early 2000s, BATMAN BEGINS was a critical success and did respectable business in 2005, and the genre REALLY took off with one-two punch of THE DARK KNIGHT and IRON MAN in 2008. But I do think none of that would have happened if BATMAN ‘89 hadn’t primed the pump.
b.t.
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